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Dangerous Synthetic Cannabinoid "Incense" Floods Market

 

(APN) ATLANTA -- Spice.  K-2.  Head Trip.  Spaz.  Spiz.  Mr. Miyagi's Warpaint Zero.  These are just a few of the many herbal
incense products which have flooded Atlanta markets, as some citizens look for a way to get a legal buzz.
The incense packages sell anywhere from ten dollars up to fifty dollars per gram.  They are clearly marked as
incense, and some even say they are not intended for human consumption.  But wink-wink nod-nod; all parties involved
seem to know that the incense by-the-gram is actually used for smoking.
They each contain a mixture
of herbs--some of which have been used ritually in indigenous cultures for hundreds of years--but are also sprayed
with a marijuana-like synethic cannabanoid.
The synthetic cannabanoids are produced in labratories; they are structurally very similar to the active cannabanoid
in marijuana.  But because they are not technically marijuana, they are not illegal.
While the federal US Drug Enforcement Agency recently banned several of the compounds, the chemists keep coming up
with new ones.  Therefore, they're completely unregulated.
"The United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) today exercised its emergency scheduling authority to control 
five chemicals (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47,497, and cannabicyclohexanol) used to make so-called “fake pot” products," 
the DEA said in a March 01, 2011, statement.
"Except as authorized by law, this action makes possessing and selling these chemicals or the products that contain them 
illegal in the United States.  This emergency action was necessary to prevent an imminent threat to public health and safety.  
The temporary scheduling action will remain in effect for at least one year while the DEA and the United States Department of 
Health and Human Services (DHHS) further study whether these chemicals should be permanently controlled," the DEA said.
"Since 2009, DEA has received an increasing number of reports from poison control centers, hospitals and law enforcement 
regarding these products.  At least 16 states have already taken action to control one or more of these chemicals. 
Emergency room physicians report that individuals that use these types of products experience serious side effects 
which include: convulsions, anxiety attacks, dangerously elevated heart rates, increased blood pressure, vomiting, 
and disorientation," the DEA said.
However, even today there are dozens, if not hundreds, of brands of herbal incense available, including at head shops across
the US, including in Atlanta's Midtown and Cheshire Bridge neighborhoods.
Atlanta Progressive News reviewed several of the packages after receiving a complaint from a source, who wished to remain
anonymous, that they tried smoking several brands of the herbal incense, and this caused what they felt was either a very rapid 
heart beat or heart palpitations.
While each of the packages listed a few ingredients, each of these ingredients were herbs like sage; nowhere on the packages
were any of the new synthetic cannabinoid compounds even listed.
One product, Ultra Weekend, listed the following herbs as ingredients: Canavalia maritima, Nymphaea caerulea, Scutellaria nana, Pedicularis 
densiflora, Leonotis leonurus, Zornia latifolia, Nelumbo nucifera, and Leonurus sibiricus. 
One product, Kanabliss Max, lists damiana leaf, marshmellow leaf, dandelion leaf, and blue lotus extract 50:1P.E. as ingredients.
Another product, Spiz, lists alviae foleum, turnera diffusa, verbascum thaspus, and artemesia vulgaris as ingredients.
Spiz also lists a website on its package, spizdoctorz.com.  But when APN went to the website for more information, it was not
a working website.
Mr. Miyagi Warpaint Zero did not list any ingredients on the package.
Another brand, Sweet Lucy, carries the following statement on its package: "Use this product at your own risk.  This product is not
intended for human consumption.  This product may be dangerous to your health if ingested.  The herbs have not been evaluated by the
FDA.  The company and its associates cannot be held accountable for any actions or choices after purchase."
One head shop in Atlanta carried the following brands of herbal incense in their store: Mr. Miyagi, Mr. Miyagi Warpaint, Mr. 
Miyagi Warpaint Zero, Phoenix 2.0, Kannabliss, Kannabliss Max, Rush XXX, Rush XL, Hayze, K4 Diamond, Diesel, Zombie, Zombie Killa,
and Spaz.
Another head shop carried the following brands: Cloud Storm, Zombie Zilla, Super Kusk, Bayou Blaster, Ultra Weekend, Witch Dr.,
Head Trip, Mojo, Extremely Legal XXX, Funky Monkey, Baby J, and Posh.
Unlike marijuana--which has years of peer-reviewed research to support its non-harmfulness, and even some 
its health benefits--there is no comprehensive research on the use of herbal incense.
When Atlanta Progressive News asked four different clerks at different head shops throughout Atlanta whether it was normal
for customers who smoke the herbal incense products to complain of a rapid heart beat, they each said yes.
One clerk suggested trying a weaker blend to avoid such a side effect; a chart on the wall in the store ranks the incense
products by strength.  One clerk in the same store said he had experienced the rapid heartbeat, but said, "I try to remind
myself that it's all in my mind."
Marijuana decriminalization advocates say the dangers of herbal incense are just another harmful societal by-product of 
marijuana prohibition.
"As long as marijuana is illegal in the states, this entire perverse market place for synthetic analogs will continue to  
exist, ie, spice.  If marijuana was legal, the marketplace would have a choice, and would choose marijuana which is organic  
and non-toxic," Allen St. Pierre, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML),
told APN.
"Plus a person cannot overdose from marijuana, nor can it cause psychosis, like the legal and dangerous synthetic analogs, 
which are easily available.  As long as marijuana is illegal, other variations of Spice will be introduced, every time one 
is made illegal," St. Pierre said.
When asked who manufactures the herbal incenses, St. Pierre said, "I do not know who is behind this profitable industry, but 
they are growing more powerful, and now have a lobby group, which is called the Coalition for Cognitive Liberty, along with 
a website coglib.org."
As it turns out, the Coalition for Cognitive Liberty is based out of Alpharetta, Georgia, a suburb to the north of Atlanta.
It is headed up by Executive Director, Dan Francis.
"The Coalition for Cognitive Liberty was formed to protect the rights of businesses in the incense industry.  The government 
seeks to regulate or ban incense products, the Coalition for Cognitive liberty seeks to stop them.  The most recent assault 
on liberty is the way states are responding to the emergence of indole based fragrance enhancers in incense mixtures," the
organization's website states.
"We are ready to fight the DEA ban, The Coalition believes that the ban is a very dangerous way to manage the synthetic cannabinoids. 
The ban will create an extensive black market and render control of the substances to drug cartels," the website states.
While the Coalition refers to synthetic cannabinoids as fragrance enhancers, in other parts of the website there seems to be
an implicit acknowledgement and defense of individuals smoking the products.
At one point on the website, the Coalition is critical of claims that synthetic cannabinoids are causing rapid heartbeats.
"These kids' hearts are racing and their blood pressure is way up—which is exactly the opposite of what it should be on K2,"
the website says.
The synthetic cannabinoid compounds were first developed by Dr. John W. Huffman, a professor of organic chemistry at Clemson 
University in South Carolina for over fifty years, as part of a research project.
Huffman told the Phoenix New Times magazine in 2010 he is disturbed by the proliferation of herbal incenses as a result of his research.
"There are no valid, peer-reviewed studies of the effects of this compound in humans, nor are there any data regarding its 
toxicity," Huffman told the New Times, likening smoking the compounds to "playing Russian Roulette."
"I emphasize that this compound was not designed to be a super-THC," Huffman says. "It should absolutely not be used as a recreational drug."
(END / 2011)

(APN) ATLANTA -- Spice.  K-2.  Head Trip.  Spaz.  Spiz.  Mr. Miyagi's Warpaint Zero.  These are just a few of the many herbal incense products which have flooded Atlanta markets, as some citizens look for a way to get a legal buzz.

The incense packages sell anywhere from ten dollars up to fifty dollars per gram.  They are clearly marked as incense, and some even say they are not intended for human consumption.  But wink-wink nod-nod; all parties involved seem to know that the incense by-the-gram is actually used for smoking.

They each contain a mixture of herbs--some of which have been used ritually in indigenous cultures for hundreds of years--but are also sprayed with a marijuana-like synethic cannabanoid.

The synthetic cannabanoids are produced in labratories; they are structurally very similar to the active cannabanoid in marijuana.  But because they are not technically marijuana, they are not illegal.  Legal or not, there is no doubt that they are harmful to the body.  The idea of putting something that is clearly dangerous in one's body because it is the closest thing to the real deal, marijuana, demonstrates addictive behavior.  People in this situation can visit r-e-h-a-b.org for help overcoming this addiction to prevent further damage to their bodies.

While the federal US Drug Enforcement Agency recently banned several of the compounds, the chemists keep coming up with new ones.  Therefore, they're completely unregulated.

"The United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) today exercised its emergency scheduling authority to control five chemicals (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-200, CP-47,497, and cannabicyclohexanol) used to make so-called 'fake pot' products," the DEA said in a March 01, 2011, statement.

"Except as authorized by law, this action makes possessing and selling these chemicals or the products that contain them illegal in the United States.  This emergency action was necessary to prevent an imminent threat to public health and safety.  The temporary scheduling action will remain in effect for at least one year while the DEA and the United States Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) further study whether these chemicals should be permanently controlled," the DEA said.

"Since 2009, DEA has received an increasing number of reports from poison control centers, hospitals and law enforcement regarding these products.  At least 16 states have already taken action to control one or more of these chemicals. Emergency room physicians report that individuals that use these types of products experience serious side effects which include: convulsions, anxiety attacks, dangerously elevated heart rates, increased blood pressure, vomiting, and disorientation," the DEA said.

However, even today there are dozens, if not hundreds, of brands of herbal incense available, including at head shops across the US, including in Atlanta's Midtown and Cheshire Bridge neighborhoods.

Atlanta Progressive News reviewed several of the packages after receiving a complaint from a source, who wished to remain anonymous, that they tried smoking several brands of the herbal incense, and this caused what they felt was either a very rapid heart beat or heart palpitations.

While each of the packages listed a few ingredients, each of these ingredients were herbs like sage; nowhere on the packages were any of the new synthetic cannabinoid compounds even listed.

One product, Ultra Weekend, listed the following herbs as ingredients: Canavalia maritima, Nymphaea caerulea, Scutellaria nana, Pedicularis densiflora, Leonotis leonurus, Zornia latifolia, Nelumbo nucifera, and Leonurus sibiricus. 

One product, Kanabliss Max, lists damiana leaf, marshmellow leaf, dandelion leaf, and blue lotus extract 50:1 P.E. as ingredients.

Another product, Spiz, lists alviae foleum, turnera diffusa, verbascum thaspus, and artemesia vulgaris as ingredients.

Spiz also lists a website on its package, spizdoctorz.com.  But when APN went to the website for more information, it was not a working website.

Mr. Miyagi Warpaint Zero did not list any ingredients on the package.

Another brand, Sweet Lucy, carries the following statement on its package: "Use this product at your own risk.  This product is not intended for human consumption.  This product may be dangerous to your health if ingested.  The herbs have not been evaluated by the FDA.  The company and its associates cannot be held accountable for any actions or choices after purchase."

One head shop in Atlanta carried the following brands of herbal incense in their store: Mr. Miyagi, Mr. Miyagi Warpaint, Mr. Miyagi Warpaint Zero, Phoenix 2.0, Kannabliss, Kannabliss Max, Rush XXX, Rush XL, Hayze, K4 Diamond, Diesel, Zombie, Zombie Killa, and Spaz.

Another head shop carried the following brands: Cloud Storm, Zombie Zilla, Super Kush, Bayou Blaster, Ultra Weekend, Witch Dr., Head Trip, Mojo, Extremely Legal XXX, Funky Monkey, Baby J, and Posh.

Unlike marijuana--which has years of peer-reviewed research to support its non-harmfulness, and even some its health benefits--there is no comprehensive research on the use of herbal incense.

When Atlanta Progressive News asked four different clerks at different head shops throughout Atlanta whether it was normal for customers who smoke the herbal incense products to complain of a rapid heart beat, they each said yes.

One clerk suggested trying a weaker blend to avoid such a side effect; a chart on the wall in the store ranks the incense products by strength.  One clerk in the same store said he had experienced the rapid heartbeat, but said, "I try to remind myself that it's all in my mind."

Marijuana decriminalization advocates say the dangers of herbal incense are just another harmful societal by-product of marijuana prohibition.

"As long as marijuana is illegal in the states, this entire perverse market place for synthetic analogs will continue to exist, ie, spice.  If marijuana was legal, the marketplace would have a choice, and would choose marijuana which is organic and non-toxic," Allen St. Pierre, Executive Director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML), told APN.

"Plus a person cannot overdose from marijuana, nor can it cause psychosis, like the legal and dangerous synthetic analogs, which are easily available.  As long as marijuana is illegal, other variations of Spice will be introduced, every time one is made illegal," St. Pierre said.

When asked who manufactures the herbal incenses, St. Pierre said, "I do not know who is behind this profitable industry, but they are growing more powerful, and now have a lobby group, which is called the Coalition for Cognitive Liberty, along with a website coglib.org."

As it turns out, the Coalition for Cognitive Liberty is based out of Alpharetta, Georgia, a suburb to the north of Atlanta.  It is headed up by Executive Director, Dan Francis.

"The Coalition for Cognitive Liberty was formed to protect the rights of businesses in the incense industry.  The government seeks to regulate or ban incense products, the Coalition for Cognitive liberty seeks to stop them.  The most recent assault on liberty is the way states are responding to the emergence of indole based fragrance enhancers in incense mixtures," the organization's website states.

"We are ready to fight the DEA ban, The Coalition believes that the ban is a very dangerous way to manage the synthetic cannabinoids. The ban will create an extensive black market and render control of the substances to drug cartels," the website states.

While the Coalition refers to synthetic cannabinoids as fragrance enhancers, in other parts of the website there seems to bean implicit acknowledgement and defense of individuals smoking the products.

At one point on the website, the Coalition is critical of claims that synthetic cannabinoids are causing rapid heartbeats.

"These kids' hearts are racing and their blood pressure is way up—which is exactly the opposite of what it should be on K2," the website says.

The synthetic cannabinoid compounds were first developed by Dr. John W. Huffman, a professor of organic chemistry at Clemson University in South Carolina for over fifty years, as part of a research project.

Huffman told the Phoenix New Times magazine in 2010 he is disturbed by the proliferation of herbal incenses as a result of his research.

"There are no valid, peer-reviewed studies of the effects of this compound in humans, nor are there any data regarding its toxicity," Huffman told the New Times, likening smoking the compounds to "playing Russian Roulette."

"I emphasize that this compound was not designed to be a super-THC," Huffman says. "It should absolutely not be used as a recreational drug."

(END / 2011)


Comments (43)

Said this on 7-27-2011 At 06:11 pm

When somebody dies from using these hybrid drugs. The blame will lie comepletely on the war on frugs and those that support it. Without that war. These drugs would not exist. Pot doesn't kill people. The war on alcohol failed. So is this war. People ned to wake up. Ron Paul in 2012 is the answer. Research him. Then register to vote as republican. Many states require that to vote in the primary's. Peace.

Said this on 11-4-2011 At 09:02 am

Ron I agree with you. It sounds like the drug inforcers & voters against pot being legal realies that the war on pot has been a mastake. They say with the iscense if there not careful it will be UN-TAXED, UN-REGULATED & sold in the black market like pot is. They know they have handled pot all wrong but don't want to admit it. There making a lot of money on the drug war at this point. They can make even more on pot if legalized. All the old farts & the I'm better then you peaple, can't admit it & change things. Alcohol I think can be dangerous & dose kill but pot smokers are nice peaceful peaple. Some pot pushers can be bad. The goverment has given them the power to shoot & kill, over the money they make on it. MAKE POT LEGAL!!!

Jesse
Said this on 1-26-2012 At 12:37 pm

I agree with you a 100%. I've been on probation for over a year. They allow me to continue taking Hydrocodone and Xanax, as longs as I keep a prescription, but any Marijuana and I'm back to jail. As a result, I've been mixing my own herbs for almost two years now. I first started with JWH-018, then moved to AM-2201 when they made JWH-018 illegal. AM-2201 was even stronger with less similarities to Marijuana. Now, AM-2201 is illegal in my state and I have been forced to use even newer chemicals. These new chemicals are even more dangerous than the ones before. JWH-018 has been out for almost two decades. That's not very long, but is decades longer than these new chemicals that were only created in the last couple years as a result of recent legeslation. Now, we are really playing Russian Roulette! Some people would say that I choose to smoke these chemicals, but if Marijuana was not illegal, I would be using an organic herb that was put on Earth by God. One that has had 1000's of years to study the effects.

We only smoke "incense", cause they made Marijuana illegal and we take "Marijuana" tests. I call them Marijuana tests, because you can get a prescription for everything else!

ricki
Said this on 10-22-2012 At 08:32 pm

hey, i know, if you are so addicted to pot, its an easy fix, move your lazy drug induced probation butt to amsterdam.

Zach
Said this on 2-24-2014 At 11:53 am

Doesn't work like that, leaving the country is not a likely option, however it's way more likely to move to another state. You would have to have permission from that state as well as a possible fee for the state your moving to. Maybe shut the fuck up if you don't fully understand the circumstances of a situation, ju just look stoopid mang.

dj
Said this on 4-26-2013 At 09:01 am

If you go to such lengths and take such risks to ingest potlike substances,maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you have an addiction problem. Why not move forward in your life with a clear head?

Archie
Said this on 5-12-2012 At 04:28 pm

I could not justify voting for paul simply to get the pot prohabition ended. Life is way more complex than that and having paul as pres would be nearly as much of a big stupid dangerous mistake as putting obama in the White House. Prisons are BIG business and the system makes billions. Why legalize weed when it assures a steady supply of inmates? The government gets to waste millions and millions on the so called drug war, build up various denominations of law enforcement, dea, fbi,border patrol yada yada, and for what?? Do you really think that drugs are that hard to stop?! Does anyone really think they are trying to win the drug war?

Just because Marijuana is natural does not mean you should smoke it. Arsenic is natural. That being said, compare pot and arsenic. One is helpful and harmless and the other is deadly. Do not mistake artificial cannibinoid-like incense to be anything like weed. M.J.is comparatively safe and even beneficial and we should fight until is is at very least decriminalized if not completely legal. Never let up. As for the all the artificial crud, don't be duped. Don't bother smoking it or whatever.It is harmful and dangerous. You risk catastrophic peril to your health and life. Don't waste time or money on fake weed, use the money and effort to fight for what is real and natural and actually more beneficial then harmful.

Ron Willison
Said this on 5-12-2012 At 08:53 pm

Archie Ron Paul is the only person in this race that cares about America and you. He also the only person with the balls to take on the FED which is the very reason we are having this conversation.

The most destructive part of the WAR ON DRUGS is it allows and removes the desire to really look at the problem in such a way as to actually arrive at solution that would be successful.
By not repealing The War On Drugs. We are causing large amounts of harm, in many cases to people that are not even involved with drug use. Innocent's caught in croosfire's during turf wars, The man that interupts a home invasion, and so on. Letting this madness continue makes anyone that has looked at the matter closely enough part of the problem. By failing to try and correct a mistake. We become responsible for damages that occur after that revelation.
In order to solve a problem. You must first define it. Unfortunately the world and indeed the medical profession at large finds treating the symptoms more profitable and less hassle. The war on drugs is big business and sadly enough the very people that propagate it are those whose lively hoods depend on it. Take away all the stupid fear mongering statements like. “End the drug war and we will have more addicts” and such. You then can use rationale to solve the problem. Everyone that reads the next statement take a big breath and think for five minutes before replying. Spend the WHOLE five minutes. Think about ALL the aspects of it. 
“YOU CAN NOT SELL ME SOMETHING I CAN GET ACROSS THE STREET FOR FREE”
It would cost the American tax payer pennies on the dollar to not only produce, grow, and  buy from farmers, and big pharma all the pot, cocaine, meth, heroin and etc. To not only supply and distribute for FREE all our current addicts needs. But also bring those numbers to almost zero over a five year time span.
Imagine if you will. An addict walks into a wellfare office. As he or she is filling out an application and release of liability waver. Said addict notices two doorways. One has a smily face. The other a skull and crossbones. Behind door number one. Treatment. Door number two. The addicts drug of chioce. For Free! For the short term it has to be that way. Your have to remove the monetary incentive to end the mayhem. There is no other way.
Only the parent's that have lost children caught in the crossfire's of turf wars and other related events will understand the real depth and true cost of our current failed attempt at prohabition. It does not work.
The adrenaline junky vice cops, prison guards and related company's, and all the other people who make their living from the war on drugs will not like this plan. Our US govt. and all it's related agency's and their employees will not like this plan. Needless to say. The drug cartels and all their underlings will have to find jobs as well. Their are solutions to the unemployment problems that ending prohabition would create. And in the long run bring addiction to almost zero.
Food for thought. Ask any addict or recovering addict this one simple question. "Is there ANYTHING that ANYONE could do that would or could prevent you from getting your drug of choice?" The answer will always be "NO". The monkey when in control rules the roost.That being the case. Prohabition is insanity in action.
If we spent the money's we currantly spend on the drug war. On prevention at grade school playground level by offering vice cops and other effected professionals the option of trading in their cop uniforms for say cubscout uniforms. And they provide positive role models and mentering services. Only those people bent on self destruction would be left to deal with. And that is on them. <---sounds cold hearted. I know but, You must look at the flip side of that. If I don't like my life that bad. It is MY choice to either fix my problems or bail out. Not the govenments. When Ron Paul say's people need to take responsibility for themselves. These are some of the things that go along with personal liberty. 
Darn. Looks like drug dealers are going to need day jobs. Gee I wonder what happened to all the drive by killings says the morticians. My business is down for some reason. The locksmiths and home security company’s are lamenting too since home invasions and theft seems to have dropped dramatically.
 Bummer all the street walkers have dis-appeared. Latest study shows STD's are down 48 percent. Recent University study shows fewer husbands bringing HIV/AIDS home to unsuspecting wives. 
This Just in. New nationwide study shows that 3 years after the war on drugs was ended. Drug Rehab centers, 28 day lockdown hospitals and clinics are reporting that the addict rehab success rates have increased from 4.9 percent to over 72 percent. Their studies and in depth investigations show that people that had NOT been forced by addiction to steal from family, con friends out of money, break promise's, And most striking of all. Were the success rates of addicts of both genders that had not needed to resort to prostitution to feed their addictions. It turns out that overall, people that have not caused others harm suffered less loss of self esteem and feelings of guilt and worthlessness,and were able to work all the steps required in a 12 step program such as AA and NA. Study says getting past the step that requires the recovering addict to do whatever necessary to make amends and or right the harm they created while in their addiction one of the hardest to get past. Other benefits are fewer family breakups, lowered applications for welfare and child protection agency services. Police report drop in spousal abuse charges. They suggest the reason can be related to households that have only one addicted member and fights over finances for drug cash outlays. Police also stated the gang related shooting dropped almost to zero. Turf wars have gone the way of the Edsel.
Also it should be noted that employee health insurance costs to employers also dropped substancially do to the large decrease of the 28 day in house programs that cost a thousand bucks a day on average.   
  Poor old gun dealers can’t understand where all their business went. Seems like people just don’t care about personal protection as much as they use to. Looks like major layoffs are taking place at most emergency rooms in large metro area’s. People are scratching their heads. They just don’t get it. Police and fire depts. downsizing nationwide. This just in. The FDA and DEPT. Of JUSTICE in a joint study have concluded that welfare fraud is down by 73 percent, and food stamps are actually being spent on food for the children. Over heard a pawn shop owner and a collection agent talking the other day. The collection agent is job hunting. For some unknown reason. People are paying their bills. The pawn shop owner is worried about paying his store rent. And so on and so on. By now you must be getting the idea. Use the WHOLE five minutes. Commercial prisons, law enforcement, the judicial system, military, coast guard, rehab centers, first responders of all ilk. EVERYBODY is dependent on the war on drugs in one way or another. 
Keeping children away from drugs that are under the legal age of accountability. IS the resposibility of parents, With help from aware and alert schools, local business and if needed. Local laws and or state law enactments.
The US Constitution and bill of rights says things like, "The pursuit of life liberty and happiness shall not be infringed.' It does not say It is the US federal governments duty to make sure you do not pursue life liberty and the freedom to be happy. The US Federal  government does not have authority where personal choice of accountible aged citizens is concerned. People are accountible for their actions. See Driving under the influence for guidance. 
Finally People use drugs for a wide variety of reasons. In most cases when addiction occures. The root causes can be traced to the need to mask mental pian related to childhood abuse. Others dabble with part time use. And they get blind sided by the particular type of drug. Usually Opiates. Ask Rush. Stigma, legal issues add to the mix and we know its all downhill from there. Pot has many uses for both pain and recreational uses. Biggest complaint about it is there just never seems to be enough food to in the fridge to withstand the onslaught of munchee attacks.
WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE. A FREE GROWN PERSON MAKES THE DECISION TO LIVE OR DIE. That is what our FOUNDING FATHERS and GOD had in mind. They were all overruled by a higher authority. OUR US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
This specifically applies to the federal government. If our founding fathers could have possibly imagined the horrors of having a government official request your bodily fluids for examination a reasonable person might believe they would have included those fluids in this protection.
The most destructive part of the WAR ON DRUGS is it allows and removes the desire to really look at the problem in such a way as to actually arrive at solution that would be successful.
By not repealing The War On Drugs. We are causing large amounts of harm, in many cases to people that are not even involved with drug use. Innocent's caught in croosfire's during turf wars, The man that interupts a home invasion, and so on. Letting this madness continue makes anyone that has looked at the matter closely enough part of the problem. By failing to try and correct a mistake. We become responsible for damages that occur after that revelation.
In order to solve a problem. You must first define it. Unfortunately the world and indeed the medical profession at large finds treating the symptoms more profitable and less hassle. The war on drugs is big business and sadly enough the very people that propagate it are those whose lively hoods depend on it. Take away all the stupid fear mongering statements like. “End the drug war and we will have more addicts” and such. You then can use rationale to solve the problem. Everyone that reads the next statement take a big breath and think for five minutes before replying. Spend the WHOLE five minutes. Think about ALL the aspects of it. 
“YOU CAN NOT SELL ME SOMETHING I CAN GET ACROSS THE STREET FOR FREE”
It would cost the American tax payer pennies on the dollar to not only produce, grow, and  buy from farmers, and big pharma all the pot, cocaine, meth, heroin and etc. To not only supply and distribute for FREE all our current addicts needs. But also bring those numbers to almost zero over a five year time span.
Imagine if you will. An addict walks into a wellfare office. As he or she is filling out an application and release of liability waver. Said addict notices two doorways. One has a smily face. The other a skull and crossbones. Behind door number one. Treatment. Door number two. The addicts drug of chioce. For Free! For the short term it has to be that way. Your have to remove the monetary incentive to end the mayhem. There is no other way.
Only the parent's that have lost children caught in the crossfire's of turf wars and other related events will understand the real depth and true cost of our current failed attempt at prohabition. It does not work.
The adrenaline junky vice cops, prison guards and related company's, and all the other people who make their living from the war on drugs will not like this plan. Our US govt. and all it's related agency's and their employees will not like this plan. Needless to say. The drug cartels and all their underlings will have to find jobs as well. Their are solutions to the unemployment problems that ending prohabition would create. And in the long run bring addiction to almost zero.
Food for thought. Ask any addict or recovering addict this one simple question. "Is there ANYTHING that ANYONE could do that would or could prevent you from getting your drug of choice?" The answer will always be "NO". The monkey when in control rules the roost.That being the case. Prohabition is insanity in action.
If we spent the money's we currantly spend on the drug war. On prevention at grade school playground level by offering vice cops and other effected professionals the option of trading in their cop uniforms for say cubscout uniforms. And they provide positive role models and mentering services. Only those people bent on self destruction would be left to deal with. And that is on them. <---sounds cold hearted. I know but, You must look at the flip side of that. If I don't like my life that bad. It is MY choice to either fix my problems or bail out. Not the govenments. When Ron Paul say's people need to take responsibility for themselves. These are some of the things that go along with personal liberty. 
Darn. Looks like drug dealers are going to need day jobs. Gee I wonder what happened to all the drive by killings says the morticians. My business is down for some reason. The locksmiths and home security company’s are lamenting too since home invasions and theft seems to have dropped dramatically.
 Bummer all the street walkers have dis-appeared. Latest study shows STD's are down 48 percent. Recent University study shows fewer husbands bringing HIV/AIDS home to unsuspecting wives. 
This Just in. New nationwide study shows that 3 years after the war on drugs was ended. Drug Rehab centers, 28 day lockdown hospitals and clinics are reporting that the addict rehab success rates have increased from 4.9 percent to over 72 percent. Their studies and in depth investigations show that people that had NOT been forced by addiction to steal from family, con friends out of money, break promise's, And most striking of all. Were the success rates of addicts of both genders that had not needed to resort to prostitution to feed their addictions. It turns out that overall, people that have not caused others harm suffered less loss of self esteem and feelings of guilt and worthlessness,and were able to work all the steps required in a 12 step program such as AA and NA. Study says getting past the step that requires the recovering addict to do whatever necessary to make amends and or right the harm they created while in their addiction one of the hardest to get past. Other benefits are fewer family breakups, lowered applications for welfare and child protection agency services. Police report drop in spousal abuse charges. They suggest the reason can be related to households that have only one addicted member and fights over finances for drug cash outlays. Police also stated the gang related shooting dropped almost to zero. Turf wars have gone the way of the Edsel.
Also it should be noted that employee health insurance costs to employers also dropped substancially do to the large decrease of the 28 day in house programs that cost a thousand bucks a day on average.   
  Poor old gun dealers can’t understand where all their business went. Seems like people just don’t care about personal protection as much as they use to. Looks like major layoffs are taking place at most emergency rooms in large metro area’s. People are scratching their heads. They just don’t get it. Police and fire depts. downsizing nationwide. This just in. The FDA and DEPT. Of JUSTICE in a joint study have concluded that welfare fraud is down by 73 percent, and food stamps are actually being spent on food for the children. Over heard a pawn shop owner and a collection agent talking the other day. The collection agent is job hunting. For some unknown reason. People are paying their bills. The pawn shop owner is worried about paying his store rent. And so on and so on. By now you must be getting the idea. Use the WHOLE five minutes. Commercial prisons, law enforcement, the judicial system, military, coast guard, rehab centers, first responders of all ilk. EVERYBODY is dependent on the war on drugs in one way or another. 
Keeping children away from drugs that are under the legal age of accountability. IS the resposibility of parents, With help from aware and alert schools, local business and if needed. Local laws and or state law enactments.
The US Constitution and bill of rights says things like, "The pursuit of life liberty and happiness shall not be infringed.' It does not say It is the US federal governments duty to make sure you do not pursue life liberty and the freedom to be happy. The US Federal  government does not have authority where personal choice of accountible aged citizens is concerned. People are accountible for their actions. See Driving under the influence for guidance. 
Finally People use drugs for a wide variety of reasons. In most cases when addiction occures. The root causes can be traced to the need to mask mental pian related to childhood abuse. Others dabble with part time use. And they get blind sided by the particular type of drug. Usually Opiates. Ask Rush. Stigma, legal issues add to the mix and we know its all downhill from there. Pot has many uses for both pain and recreational uses. Biggest complaint about it is there just never seems to be enough food to in the fridge to withstand the onslaught of munchee attacks.
WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE. A FREE GROWN PERSON MAKES THE DECISION TO LIVE OR DIE. That is what our FOUNDING FATHERS and GOD had in mind. They were all overruled by a higher authority. OUR US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
This specifically applies to the federal government. If our founding fathers could have possibly imagined the horrors of having a government official request your bodily fluids for examination a reasonable person might believe they would have included those fluids in this protection.

Archie
Said this on 5-13-2012 At 02:23 pm

Thank you for your reply. I think we agree on nearly every point you mentioned, except for Ron Paul being the one to bring the canges about. Unfortunately, he is the only one that seems to support legalization.

My point was that legalization is not enough for me when looking at presidential qualifications. I am completely against withdrawing our military from everywhere. That would be a disasterous move. I am not in favor of the afgan war, nor the iraq war; not on the reasons for becoming involved, but on the way it was conducted. I do not think we should ever send our troops into harms way unless we plan to completely overcome our advisaries. The idea of shock and awe seems silly if we suddenly abandon the initial objective and begin to focus on politics. If we decide to engage in armed conflict, we should carry it all the way to conclusion. Immediate and overwhelming force that does not let up until our enemies are vanquished...then talk about rebuilding. If we are not willing to do that then we should not even start. I believe we should stand by Israel without question or doubt. God Himself did say that He will bless those who bless Israel and will curse those who curse israel. I Iraq or Iran or anyone else threatens Israel, we should consider it a direct personal threat to the U.S.A. and treat it as such. We either go to battle with the idea that we are going to stomp any agression, or we should not go at all. We need the reputation to be understood by all. Don't make us come over there. Get it settled, work it out. If we have to get involved it will be ugly and over very quick. How many billions would that save us?

Jobs and Economy: Ron Paul has had a negligible effect, and has not revealed any reasonable solutions. His record on economic issues is nothing rally around either. Not bad, not good, just not significant. That is not what we need. We need a profound and comprehensive plan. Legalizing pot would save us billions without question. Great idea for a thousand reasons. Do it now!! Not doing it is simply foolish. Hey, count on my vote for that one. I have the card and I know the benefits. The few concerns that legalization would cause, are dwarfed in every way, by the benefits.

Next rant....China, North Korea, yemen, half of south america, world banks, world oil games, somolia, sudan. What does Ron Paul think we should do about these things? Stick our head in the sand and do nothing? We would lose this country just as fast as a second term for the great traitor obama.

I know that Ron Paul has nearly all the rastafarian vote, but the world is way more complex than that. I will not vote for anyone just because we agree on a single issue, any more than I would jeapordize our national soveriegnity/security, nor world security just to get to smoke pot. I will smoke it anyway and fight for legalization and total reform on the issue untill we win.

Thank You for your time in entertaining my perspective.

 

Ron Willison
Said this on 5-13-2012 At 05:30 pm

I would dis agree with just aout everything you stated. The fact is. Israel for starters is along with the International financiers that stuffed the biggest fraud in human history down our throats with the deception known as the Fed Act of 1913. At the time the very same bankers and associates were concocting the biggest single humanistic collective mental error known as the Balfour Declaration and its later revised addoption and UN vote to approve partitioning of Palestine. The very nature of the ways they devided those lands up. Insured that it would fail. 64 years later we are having to live with the results. And cointrary to what our US media will tell you. The chest bumping and run up to war with Iran. Is NOT about NUKES. Its about those same angry god damned bankers. They don't like it when upstarts like Saddam, Qaddafi and now Admandineadjad say NO. Keep your US Federal Reserve Petro-Dollar Notes. Were full up on toilet paper. So now Netanyoyo and Ehud Barak run about saying one thing while meaning another hoping once again Amereican blood and wealth can be used to take out those that don't agree with Zions treatment of the Palo-Arabs. And That is not how a supposed friendly country does another quote friendly country. You also left out East Timore in your list of worry's that we can not afford to handle. America has already been sucked of her youths blood and futures. For What? To go down the drain by supporting the biggest humanitarion mistake in recorded history? I'm Sorry. As Doc Paul says. along with every historian. Empire is doomed to failure. We don't need foreign Oil. I've already turned my car into a yard planter. It grows potatoes and tomato's real good. Ending Adventurism and Wars for resource aquisition is folly. Not to mention Immoral. Where do you think the real depression American's are suffering from today originates? I don't suppose it could be the mirror could it? There ain't a person over 16 in America that does not know deep down that by ignoring these issues as long as their car still has gas in the tank even if it means people have to die for it could find the mirror reflection something pleasing. That is where the apathy and lack of self esteem comes from. RON PAUL 2012. Even the peoples from around the world are hoping and praying we American's get it right this November.

Ron Willison
Said this on 5-17-2013 At 10:12 pm

Archie.. Thank you as well for taking part in a conversation that needs to take place in a National forum. While the election's have been over for six months. I feel even stronger that Ron Paul was the answer. If nothing else he would have thrown some speed bumps into the paths of those with an UnAmerican agenda. The problem that those of us that were the most avid Paul supporters had was the sheer size and power of the dragon we were fighting. For instance. When you said. "Unfortunately, he is the only one that seems to support legalization" What that says to me is that you really didn't look hard enough at the man to understand that in his mind there is a difference between legalization and undoing an unconstitutional law.

Regarding Israel. I'm 65 and have been very tuned into world history and politics since the day JFK was killed. Archie and anyone else following this conversation. If you take the time to read what follows. You will learn much and have more data to base conclusions and opinions on. All should be aware by now that DC is a mess. Our country is looking for a cliff to jump off of. What follows is a look at things I know to be the root causes.

     _______GUN CONTROL.. THE BIG PICTURE________
To each and every elected official and or appointed public servant that gets a copy of, or see's this dose of reality. It is upon you to address the real and underlying issues that America and the world at large are facing..By not speaking about, or doing something to address the hidden root causes of the worlds looming train wreck. The reflection you get back from the mirror will be yours to deal with. Attempts at treating the symptom's is futile and a waste of precious time.
Why {EVERY} American Citizen MUST take the time to acquire the historical documented data needed to make an informed decisions on why our current US Local, State and Federal elected representatives are demonstrating an elevated willingness to abrogate the second amendment protections The US Constitution provides to "We the people of the many States" that combined contribute to and comprise The United States Of America 
Our US Constitution and Bill of Rights were not thrown together in some willy nilly fashion by men with too much time on their hands.They and everyone who fought, bled or died to provide that moment in time, had as their primary focus.The intent to produce a Charter containing the laws that would define and protect {EVERY} US citizen, no matter what their station in life from the tyrannical injustices and abuses that they had suffered at the hands of The British Royal Crowns soldiers, tax collectors, ruthless unscrupulous  businessmen and the machinations of deceptive bankers and other purveyors of Usury. which they had experienced as horrors to be avoided at all costs.  
The founding fathers were not ALL perfect men. Some were self serving men with personal agenda's that were scorned then and would most likely be scorned today. On whole they did have one common belief. That was to include into the Constitution the ability to defend itself from attack by both foreign and domestic forces. They gave much thought and spent long hours discussing and perfecting what would be the final foundational document that our country would have as it's supporting structure.
That brings us to the events taking place today. It is a safe bet to conclude that the order in which the guidelines and laws are placed within that document. Speaks volumes about the importance the framers placed upon the individual mandates and the value each represented to maintain and secure the Country's status as a sovereign nation state over time. 
One. The freedom of unfettered, free from retribution by government Speech. With special provisions for the Press. The Intent to insure public discourse and keep the people informed about what the government was doing in the peoples name. They understood that an informed people would provide the checks and balances needed to insure peace, stability, and the general well being of the country as a whole. 
Two. In our second amendment rights to keep and bare ARMS. The framers left no room for doubt. no ambiguity, no Interpretations needed or possible.The precise structure of the words,"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" Can not be gotten around. They understood that the ARMED citizens would utilize the second amendment to protect the first amendment if the need arose. They knew that in our country's future. There would be those bent on destroying our country by destroying the foundational strengths contained within the US Constitution. Knowing that. They included in that work the description's of, and remedy's for. Acts of Treason, Sedition and other High Crimes. And like it or not. Today's current events demonstrate just how far into the future they could see. 
 There is no need for me to go farther into the Constitution at this point.
You will do that on your own. What you need to know is that if you take the time to look at the last 100 plus years of American history alone. Paying particular attention to the slippery slope our legislators have taken us down since 9-11-2001.Look for and see what the real 
root cause for that madness really was and still is. Then remember the reasons given by the Bush administration and fed to us by our once trusted major press. You will arrive at today, and see what the real underlying force powering the attack upon our Constitutional Second amendment right to keep and bare arms are all about.
After some serious digging for real data. You will know what the intent and purpose of laws like the The Patriot Act, the totally unlawful and  unconstitutional subsets attached to the N.D.A.A. bills, and a pile of illegal Presidential Executive Orders that are nothing more than sneaking deceptive circumventions and workarounds to the Constitution that our founding fathers went to such great lengths to warn us about, and prevent from happening.
The US and other western country's attacks on wikileaks and others. 
The Total lack of noise from our press, media, and ALL of our US top Government elected, or appointed officials, regardless of ideology, on the subject of Election Fraud, Rigging, and Voter Suppression that was so painfully displayed to the world in all it's blazing glory during our US 2012 election cycle. Provable FELONY'S and what do we hear? Absolute SILENCE. What do we see being done about it? NOTHING. What are the consequences for that lack of concern by our Top law enforcement officials? Do you think maybe at least one of them would add 2 + 2 and see the connection to the over the top and ALARMING numbers of our children returning home from our war zones pick of the week, and then committing SUICIDE? Which was removed from the public discourse and put to bed with Obama's " We have to give our returning VETS a stake in America" speech and photo op.   
.
Then there is Boston, Benghazi, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Hookers in Columbia, Drones in Yemen, Palestine, The Feds 100 year charter expiration, Immigration, The UN small arms treaty, Israel doing pre-emptive air strikes in Syria and Lebanon, People organising a 4th of July Peaceful Independence day Armed March on DC. Which if it happens others will go to great lengths to make sure is anything but peaceful. And to add insult Joe Lieberman crawls out from under his rock to once again apply a healthy dose of blame upon our various security agency's that in many cases are unlawful in the first place as our Constitution states quite clearly that The department of the Navy is responsible for America's security. So Lieberman is stumping for MORE tax dollars for Law enforcement to make for better inter-agency communications that could maybe have prevented a couple of Now American citizens from setting off their pressure cooker bombs in BOSTON  He fails to mention that after the 911 WTC attacks in New York.The blame game was used to make sure nobody was held accountable then, as well.. How much money does it take Joe?  Bernanke and pal's can't print enough to eradicate  WILFUL neglect. And that's being diplomatic.
So ABC, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, and FOX will fill the airwaves with three  girls and a child rescued from captivity by a good man doing what anyone of good heart would have done. While at the same time, out of sight, out of mind. Netanyaho will continue turning victims into bigger victims by letting his bulldozers continue to turn Palestinian homes and businesses into Bulldozer parking lots and garages. While he is drawing red lines in the sand over Iran's questionable pursuit of Nukes.
If Joe Lieberman cared one iota about America. He would have the spine to call a duck a duck. But since everything that has come out of his face since 9-11-2001 has been aimed at putting an Orwellian two way TV in every room in every house in America. Joe Lieberman needs to crawl back under the rock he just resurfaced from.
For those that don't know what duck I was talking about above.Google The "BALFOUR   DECLARATION" / "The HUSSEIN McMaHon LETTERS" / "The "FEDERAL RESERVE ACT of 1913" / "Who promoted and helped fund the creation of the UNITED NATIONS" Then, take a long hard look at the DETAILS contained within "The UN RESOLUTION TO PARTITION PALESTINE 1948" And finally a quick peek at the goings on within the real-estate now called ISRAEL for the last 65 years. 
Those that do that will know why Joe Lieberman and associates would rather turn America into a prison,fuel the fires burning up our Constitution, and fan the flames of anger aimed at America from abroad by not having the guts to call a duck a duck.
There would be no foreign terrorist's types looking to cause America harm if America was not joined at the Hip and running interference at the UN with her VETO powers where Israel's misguided unlawful treatment of the Palestinian Arab's, Christian's, Jew's, and Other's is concerned. Those people were, and what's left of them still are. The real victims in this mess. The home grown extremists are a direct result of the treacherous and seditious constitutional circumventions and unlawful workarounds that have been shoved down our throats, like the Patriot Act and the unlawful powers handed to America's last two Executive Branch (i.e.) Presidents and administration's going forward into the unforeseeable future contained within the N.D.A.A. That is the Duck that Joe Lieberman refuses to call a duck. And those are the ducks responsible for 90 percent of what ails the world today. 

     _______GUN CONTROL.. THE BIG PICTURE________
To each and every elected official and or appointed public servant that gets a copy of, or see's this dose of reality. It is upon you to address the real and underlying issues that America and the world at large are facing..By not speaking about, or doing something to address the hidden root causes of the worlds looming train wreck. The reflection you get back from the mirror will be yours to deal with. Attempts at treating the symptom's is futile and a waste of precious time.
Why {EVERY} American Citizen MUST take the time to acquire the historical documented data needed to make an informed decisions on why our current US Local, State and Federal elected representatives are demonstrating an elevated willingness to abrogate the second amendment protections The US Constitution provides to "We the people of the many States" that combined contribute to and comprise The United States Of America 
Our US Constitution and Bill of Rights were not thrown together in some willy nilly fashion by men with too much time on their hands.They and everyone who fought, bled or died to provide that moment in time, had as their primary focus.The intent to produce a Charter containing the laws that would define and protect {EVERY} US citizen, no matter what their station in life from the tyrannical injustices and abuses that they had suffered at the hands of The British Royal Crowns soldiers, tax collectors, ruthless unscrupulous  businessmen and the machinations of deceptive bankers and other purveyors of Usury. which they had experienced as horrors to be avoided at all costs.  
The founding fathers were not ALL perfect men. Some were self serving men with personal agenda's that were scorned then and would most likely be scorned today. On whole they did have one common belief. That was to include into the Constitution the ability to defend itself from attack by both foreign and domestic forces. They gave much thought and spent long hours discussing and perfecting what would be the final foundational document that our country would have as it's supporting structure.
That brings us to the events taking place today. It is a safe bet to conclude that the order in which the guidelines and laws are placed within that document. Speaks volumes about the importance the framers placed upon the individual mandates and the value each represented to maintain and secure the Country's status as a sovereign nation state over time. 
One. The freedom of unfettered, free from retribution by government Speech. With special provisions for the Press. The Intent to insure public discourse and keep the people informed about what the government was doing in the peoples name. They understood that an informed people would provide the checks and balances needed to insure peace, stability, and the general well being of the country as a whole. 
Two. In our second amendment rights to keep and bare ARMS. The framers left no room for doubt. no ambiguity, no Interpretations needed or possible.The precise structure of the words,"SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" Can not be gotten around. They understood that the ARMED citizens would utilize the second amendment to protect the first amendment if the need arose. They knew that in our country's future. There would be those bent on destroying our country by destroying the foundational strengths contained within the US Constitution. Knowing that. They included in that work the description's of, and remedy's for. Acts of Treason, Sedition and other High Crimes. And like it or not. Today's current events demonstrate just how far into the future they could see. 
 There is no need for me to go farther into the Constitution at this point.You will do that on your own. What you need to know is that if you take the time to look at the last 100 plus years of American history alone. Paying particular attention to the slippery slope our legislators have taken us down since 9-11-2001.Look for and see what the real root cause for that madness really was and still is. Then remember the reasons given by the Bush administration and fed to us by our once trusted major press. You will arrive at today, and see what the real underlying force powering the attack upon our Constitutional Second amendment right to keep and bare arms are all about.
After some serious digging for real data. You will know what the intent and purpose of laws like the The Patriot Act, the totally unlawful and  unconstitutional subsets attached to the N.D.A.A. bills, and a pile of illegal Presidential Executive Orders that are nothing more than sneaking deceptive circumventions and workarounds to the Constitution that our founding fathers went to such great lengths to warn us about, and prevent from happening.
The US and other western country's attacks on wikileaks and others. The Total lack of noise from our press, media, and ALL of our US top Government elected, or appointed officials, regardless of ideology, on the subject of Election Fraud, Rigging, and Voter Suppression that was so painfully displayed to the world in all it's blazing glory during our US 2012 election cycle. Provable FELONY'S and what do we hear? Absolute SILENCE. What do we see being done about it? NOTHING. What are the consequences for that lack of concern by our Top law enforcement officials? Do you think maybe at least one of them would add 2 + 2 and see the connection to the over the top and ALARMING numbers of our children returning home from Netanyahu and pals Hit List of the week war zones, and then committing SUICIDE? Which was removed from the public discourse and put to bed with Obama's " We have to give our returning VETS a stake in America" speech and photo op.   .Then there is Boston, Benghazi, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Hookers in Columbia, Drones in Yemen, Palestine, The Feds 100 year charter expiration, Immigration, The UN small arms treaty, Israel doing pre-emptive air strikes in Syria and Lebanon, People organising a 4th of July Peaceful Independence day Armed March on DC. Which if it happens others will go to great lengths to make sure is anything but peaceful. And to add insult to injury Joe Lieberman crawls out from under his rock to once again to apply a healthy dose of blame upon our various security agency's that in many cases are unlawful in the first place as our Constitution states quite clearly that The department of the Navy is responsible for America's security. So Lieberman is stumping for MORE tax dollars for Law enforcement to make for better inter-agency communications that could maybe have prevented a couple of now American citizens that immigrated from Chechnia setting off their pressure cooker bombs in BOSTON  He fails to mention that after the 911 WTC attacks in New York.The blame game was used to make sure nobody was held accountable then, as well.. How much money does it take Joe?  Bernanke and pal's can't print enough to eradicate  WILFUL neglect. And that's being diplomatic.
So ABC, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, and FOX will fill the airwaves with three  girls and a child rescued from captivity by a good man doing what anyone of good heart would have done. While at the same time, out of sight, out of mind. Netanyaho will continue turning victims into bigger victims by letting his bulldozers continue to turn Palestinian homes and businesses into Bulldozer parking lots and garages. While he is drawing red lines in the sand over Iran's questionable pursuit of Nukes.
If Joe Lieberman cared one iota about America. He would have the spine to call a duck a duck. But since everything that has come out of his face since 9-11-2001 has been aimed at putting an Orwellian two way TV in every room in every house in America. Joe Lieberman needs to crawl back under the rock he just resurfaced from.
For those that don't know what duck I was talking about above.Google The "BALFOUR   DECLARATION" / "The HUSSEIN McMaHon LETTERS" / "The "FEDERAL RESERVE ACT of 1913" / "Who promoted and helped fund the creation of the UNITED NATIONS" Then, take a long hard look at the DETAILS contained within "The UN RESOLUTION TO PARTITION PALESTINE 1948" And finally a quick peek at the goings on within the real-estate now called ISRAEL for the last 65 years. 
Those that do that will know why Joe Lieberman and associates would rather turn America into a prison,fuel the fires burning up our Constitution, and fan the flames of anger aimed at America from abroad by not having the guts to call a duck a duck.
There would be no foreign terrorist's types looking to cause America harm if America was not joined at the Hip and running interference at the UN with her VETO powers where Israel's misguided unlawful treatment of the Palestinian Arab's, Christian's, Jew's, and Other's is concerned. Those people were, and what's left of them still are. The real victims in this mess. The home grown extremists are a direct result of the treacherous and seditious constitutional circumventions and unlawful workarounds that have been shoved down our throats, like the Patriot Act and the unlawful powers handed to America's last two Executive Branch (i.e.) Presidents and administration's going forward into the unforeseeable future contained within the N.D.A.A. That is the Duck that Joe Lieberman refuses to call a duck. And those are the ducks responsible for 90 percent of what ails the world today. Archie Yes if America were attacked by a foreign nation state. I agree get it over instantly. What you must understand is every war since WW1 has been influenced by the very people and their Heir's who now are very close to establishing their long sought after totalitarian One World Government. The Cunning and ruthlessness used over the last 120 plus years to bring things to this state is nothing short of awe inspiring. They expense planning and excution of todays version of what has been tried countless times in humanity's past sixty thousand plus years is impossible for most to even comprehend. There is a reason for that. It is called the two minute sound byte attention span disorder created by our media moguls who define the structure of out viewing platforms. They have done much of this on purpose. As long as people refuse to wrap their brains around the idea that there exists on this planet people who set in motion plans that they know going in. That they will not be around to see reach fruition. These conspiritors will achieve their goals. Throw a brick through your TV screens and within months you will understand what I am talking about.  I gave mine away four years ago. And finally Archie since you brough God into the thread. Ask yourself a couple of questions, like for instance. As you stated above that God will bless those that bless Israel. What kind of a God would turn his chosen people into vagabonds by sending them off into the desert with the direct order to never return to those lands with statehood in mind. What kind of GOD  would condone and bless those people who after they dis-obeyed that direct order. Would find anything done to the peoples whose lands were taken and to this day 65 years later. are still being stolen and or destroyed by any means, and at any cost by an ungodly organization that was invented by the very people that claim GOD gave them those lands. For the purpose of OVER RULING their GOD? Because America was also stolen in 1913 by these same people when they snuck the Trojan horse known as The Federal Reserve in under the radar, to an unsuspecting naive and overly trusting people. They have used that Trojan Horse like a concert Voilinist to steal our wealth and use our childrens blood in pre-planned wars to further their global "BIG IDEA" dreams of world domination. I have to tell you Archie. If they worship a god that will reward that kind of behaviour. You and the rest of the world really don't want to see that God arrive. When a God that I would worthy of worship showed up. I would not want to be found joined at the hip with those who are responsible for more death and destruction than any the world has ever known.

 

JW Marriot
Said this on 8-25-2012 At 09:54 pm

Arsenic has health benefits, as well, including lowering blood pressure.  Arsenic actually has a long history of use as a medicine.

Ronald
Said this on 5-17-2013 At 08:14 pm

No, no states require you to Register as a republican. States Require you to register to vote, but you can sign on to whatever party you choose.

amber bock
Said this on 7-28-2011 At 05:51 pm

Personally, I do think the creator(s) of this have some responsibility. 

For people having trouble after smoking a variation of this stuff, try using a clay (such as french green clay) to flush it out of your system, then take nerve and heart supplements to help your body heal.  Takes time, but seems to work.

 

Raj
Said this on 4-12-2012 At 09:17 pm

Hi amber,

I smoked a herbal incense similar to k2  two years ago, and from that date I have had heart pal­pit­a­tions, ability to hear my heart beat, heart flut­tering sen­sa­tions, ringings in ears, chest pain, pres­sure by the left breast. My symp­toms are present all day and only get better If I do not get enough sleep.

I do have a history of anxiety and depression and I was off/on antidepressants a few years ago, but I never had these physical symptoms.

Where did you get the french green clay?

Any input is greatly appre­ci­ated. Thank you for your time

 

teresa collins
Said this on 4-30-2012 At 11:26 pm

BLAH BLAH BLAH, marijuana is illegal so i smoke this new spice, incense, yada yada, maybe you just haven't noticed the side effects from it yet, but you will 100's of emergency room cases coming kids smoking this stuff, the brain damage is irreversible, it mimics schizophrenia, hope i spelled that right.

so you want to be taken care of and be able to keep using your drugs, you will get that from the rubber room they put you in.  good bye to a chance at life, so your in a rut, pick yourself up and keep moving forward.

Allison
Said this on 8-29-2011 At 03:51 pm



It is not the actual herbal k2 incense blends which are being banned, but rather select chemicals found within some of the k2 herb blends. Some k2 smoke blends do not contain any offending ingredients and thus may remain on shelves. There seems to be some confusion as to why some spice blends are still being sold legally and so that explains how someone may say they still buy k2 legally. Apparently http://www.k2incenseblend.com has several blends that are legal everywhere.


crystal
Said this on 9-14-2011 At 10:38 pm

I think its real cad that people feel so desprate to get high that they smoke potpourri,and snort bath salts,i am real worried about the future generations.what the hell is wrong with people really? whats next i wonder!

mkj
Said this on 9-20-2011 At 07:16 pm

people arent really snorting bath salts. They just call the compounds bath salts so they can sell it legaly. It is not like people found out snorting bath salt gets you high, Most of the so called bath salts are really mephedrone.

Babylonslim
Said this on 9-27-2011 At 11:44 pm

Oh Boy! Me too! Me too! I wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa

won-der... what, just what --

is next.

teresa collins
Said this on 4-30-2012 At 11:29 pm

i like your comment and appreciate your fear.  will this generation be called the lost generation?  what is frightening is that this generation will produce our grand children, and what will that generation have to look forward to?  sad  so sad

Joe D'Amato
Said this on 10-2-2011 At 09:40 pm

smoking potpourri nonstop here in north Atlanta.

feels good man, and no side effects. been blazin like 5 months

 

except one brand, called HEAD TRIP the blueberry in particular made me pass out and my lips turned blue. that sucked.

 

but i like the hayze (all of them) the zombie (all of them) the miyagi (all of them) .. the second tier is kinda crappy..

Shelvie
Said this on 10-4-2011 At 11:34 pm

My 16 year old son almost died from smoking just one puff of "Mr. Miyagi". His heart rate increased, his body temperatur and blood pressure shot up and his body became completely rigid and unresponsive. Marijuana should be legalized ! I personally do not do any kind of drugs. I know teenagers are going to experiment no matter what scare tactics we, as parents, use. Although I would not condone the use of it by my child; I would rather he smoke "real" marijuana than the synthetic stuff full of toxins and chemicals.

Jesse
Said this on 1-26-2012 At 12:55 pm

If Marijuana was legal, this chemicals would not be worth the herbs they spray them on!

It's sad that people have to go to these limits, when they have a herb that is safe and put on Earth by God. Most of the people making these "incense," are foreigners. They are the same ones that own the gas stations that they sell it from. I live in Lafayette, LA and I know the people in the area that are responsible for the manufacture, distribution and marketing. There names are Samir and Mohammed. They buy their chemicals from distribution companies that get their chemicals in bulk from Chinese chemists.

In the past, these chemists have shipped the wrong chemicals to clients. In all the cases I know of, it was not cannabanoids, but rather psychedelic stimulants like "Bromo-Dragonfly." How do you mix up these chemicals? I believe the Chinese chemists did it on purpose. I know it's possible that it was accident, but where in the process of creating drugs do you mix them up and forget which one is what? I do not believe this.

Even with the Cannabanoids, by the time you get a pack of "incense," the herbs have probably been smoked many times and are not deadly. Although, that still does not guarantee what is in the pack. I mix my own herbs and I still worry about this.

Smoking the herbs is a huge risk. One pack may have 10 herbs and another pack has a whole different set of herbs. Each herb has 1000's of chemicals that we do not know the side effects of. We are taking huge risks by smoking just the herbs!

Then you got the Cannabanoids that have been sprayed on them. I have been using AM-2201 and in many states without a new round of laws, this is the most popular chemical being used.

Anyway, AM-2201 has a Fluorine atom at the end of a long chain that would scare anyone that has a basic knowledge of Chemistry. We do not believe the Fluorine atom from the molecule is having a toxic effect, but no one has properly tested it!

Now, we have even crazier and much newer chemicals being synthesized as result of new laws. We in the industry, call these new chemicals, "3rd Generation Cannaanoids." People are inventing these new chemicals one day and spraying them on herbs to smoke the next. If you thought the original Spice and K2 was dangerous, well try these 3rd Generation Cannabanoids!

Rudy
Said this on 3-19-2012 At 11:45 am
I thought that all cannabanoids were illegal in Louisiana. am I mistaken?
Said this on 3-12-2013 At 11:59 pm

You can still get it in boutee

Liam Halligan
Said this on 10-15-2011 At 10:35 am

Although "Sweet Lucy" brand does state it is not for human consumption, i have been smoking this stuff morning to night for months, it is an exact replica of high quality marijuana, and it is by far impossible to overdose on this stuff. I understand bath salts are dangerous amphetamines but these politicians are making mountains out of molehills with herbal incense. Anybody that tries to ban this stuff isnt acting democratic but is acting selfish. The demand for this stuff itself is proof enough that this is what the people want.

Said this on 3-13-2013 At 12:02 am

Dude, you are smoking poison. It's not a weed or natural. If you read all these stories about people going the hospital, consider yourself lucky that you haven't came across a bad batch. I smoked this stuff for two years and it's just not worth it

Mr Natural
Said this on 10-17-2011 At 10:20 pm

I have smoking weed regularly for over 30 years and recently I tried "Spaz" with an old smoking buddy. We've both had plenty of experience with coke, acid, and other assorted drugs back in the day (although nowadays we both just stick to weed).

We both had a bad experience from the Spaz. I had very paranod hallucinations, and I could feel my heartbeat speeding up. I occassionally have bouts of tachycardia and unstable angina, so I am very careful about my heart these days...I felt like I was very close to another angina attack.

My buddy really zoned out and even though he was still awake, I had to snap him out of it. The dvd we were watching ended shortly after we toked up, and he was too out of it to realize it was over.

He didn't want to smoke anymore Spaz either, which really shocked me. He has a healthy heart and a far more voracious appetite for drugs than I do, and I 've never seen him turn down any drugs ever in the 35 years I've known him.

Bottom line: Spaz isn't much fun. If you've got a heart condition, stay away from it. And it saddens me to know that teenage kids are out there smoking it...I hope they ban this stuff asap.

Concerned
Said this on 12-23-2011 At 10:06 pm

I have been smoking marijuana since I was 13 years old (now 31) and hard drugs during my youth (have only been smoking pot for the last 8 years, not even drinking) I tried some 'spaz' because a buddy of mine is on probabtion, and he rolled some up. - yeah, I got "high" but it was nothing like a marijuana high... it was more like a low level hallucination, similar to sythetic opium ('red rock' and 'white rock') which is basically condensed potpurri... I didn't realize it was a "incense" it looked similar to marijuana, but was fluffy and not at all plant like. 

okay, I was really zoned out... but I hadn't smoked marijuana in a few weeks, so chopped it up to my 'tolerance' being low.... then came the slight paranoia, I tried to let go... and figured it was situational, that I had never tried it before, and was just not used to it... maybe THAT was why I had a rapid heart beat, and a weird heavy feeling.

 

the most alarming part: I got something similar to 'cotton mouth' which is usually just dry mouth, until you get something to drink... this was different... because about 10 minutes AFTER smoking 'spaz' my throught started to constrict, and I was having shortness of breath... followed by an intense TERRIBLE aftertaste. - getting something to drink made it worse, it felt like something was coating my whole throat, like some type of residue that I couldn't get off... I smoked a cigarette later on... still taste the terrible taste, brushed my teeth... still taste it. - everything I've eaten/drank is overshadowed by this terrible aftertaste, and a feeling in my mouth similar to getting burned by hot coffe... like something is wrong with my taste buds... that was YESTERDAY... now, 24 hours later I STILL can't get this horrible taste out of my mouth. - I went to the shop where it was purchased, and they mentioned the rapid heart beat and shortness of breath was 'normal' and told me I probably smoked to much... then when I mentioned the aftertaste that has never went away even after sleeping, and brushing my teeth multiple times. - they sugguested I had an allergic reaction to one of the 'herbs' in it. o.O

I really hope I haven't destroyed my taste buds, as this terrible taste is still lingering, and it feels like my tongue was burned. 

Justin
Said this on 12-16-2011 At 08:10 pm

Truely sad that once was once a symbol of freedom is now a symbol of oppression. Americas war on drugs was a failed plan from the start. I personally use these substances because of them being legal and pot being a crime. I have had a fast heart beat but it is no different to drinking a Monster Energy drink fast. I have used these products for a few years now so heres your peer study, Im fine,not dead, a college educated father of two and i can most definately say they have done nothing. I have regular checkups and my doctor says while he cannot condone the use of an unregulated therapy, i show no signs of having any effect since i began use. I say to all of you who wish to ban these products, MOVE TO CHINA they would love to govern over every part of your life...as for me and my AMERICAN FREEDOM stay the hell out of my business.

Jesse
Said this on 1-26-2012 At 01:06 pm

Justin,

I totally understand you. Not only do I smoke these herbs, but I mix my own. I only smoke because I am on probation and I only mix my own herbs because it is much cheaper. Like $0.50 a gram.

Anyway, the sad truth is this...We are still acting like Guinea Pigs! I've been getting my chemicals from the same company for over 2 years. I trust them, as much as I need to, but even them can not guarantee my safety. They don't sell these chemicals for Human use and they have never been tested for Human use.

To be honest, you should have a long-term plan. My plan is to get off probation in October and quit smoking these chemicals. I'm sorry if your not that lucky and you will have to keep smoking these herbs. We may have not had problems yet, but as these chemicals become illegal and they make new ones (trust me, they will!), they will only get more dangerous. We really are playing Russian Roulette and it's sad.

You say to go to China! That's funny, because that is where these chemicals are coming from. Even the Chinese have more freedom than we do!

Said this on 1-22-2012 At 04:54 am

I think we can all agree that there are many benefits to herbal incense such as aromatherapy, relaxing, mediation. Further many use herbal incense smoke to kill bacteria in the house. The beautiful scent allures you into a heavenly place and...

Tasha
Said this on 1-31-2012 At 11:29 pm

I am fully behind herbal incense (chamiso) what we call it in pueblo, co. I am an educated mother of two, employed and alive..i'm a avid weed smoker but trying to find a better job can't do it..I think it is a good way to go home at the end of the day and relax..go mr. miyagi!!

wnkeith
Said this on 2-3-2012 At 01:42 am

Pot smoker for 30 years , I tried that stuff they sell in the head shop called herbal incense potpourri etc.

I took one hit of that stuff and was in a literal hell for 2 hours.
My heart was beating out of my chest a million miles a minute.
I had feelings like I was gonna die.

In the 30 years smoking real weed I never had that experiece like I had with the sythetic analog in the head shops sold as Incense/potpourri.

I'm sticking to real weed from here on out. That fake shit scared the F out of me.

That stuff should NOT be legal and weed should be legal.

I can't believe I can just walk into a store and buy that crap.

Please stay away and look for genuine weed.

zack
Said this on 2-8-2012 At 10:59 pm

i havent smoked m;20 potpurri in 5 months and i hear voices now, my heart races sometimes for no reason,and one time my heart beat one time and started racing  thought my heart was was going 2 stop a couple times. when im tired everyones faces look blurry and when i wake up everything looks like its in hd. on top of all that when i hear loud noises i hear loud beeping. and i hear static in my ears when i wake up. im scared im only 21 and i think im dying from smoking this shit if i could take it back i would. help me someone.

Jeff
Said this on 2-29-2012 At 06:37 am

I wish I had read your article about the use of synthetic
canabanoids much sooner, because last night I had an experience that fully embodies all the things wrong with it. I got sick, dizzy, light headed and eventually went in some state of psychosis and literally tried to kill three people I love and myself. If there is anything you can do to help me get my story out so this doesn't happen again, please tell me. I typed out three pages worth of stuff that happened in my mind while I was under the influence of it, and it is absolutely horrifying. If it can prevent one more person from using these substances, i will be happy.

Blindobaduuh
Said this on 3-15-2012 At 10:21 am

I have been smoking hayze for some time now, never felt anything bad, the high is similar to regular cannabis but doesn't last long. I've always thought about the dangers of this stuff but I keep coming back to the store to buy more... Don't take me wrong I'm not a morning to night smoker that can't live without it. Actually several days to weeks pass before I buy again. But if cannabis was legal it would be so much better, it's just sad to live without regular doses of thc and these legal drugs are so acessible.

Haley
Said this on 3-29-2012 At 10:10 am

I believe that Marijana should be legal, we should have pot stores in America, only sold for 21 and older here is why;

1. It will help with peoples pain

2. It helps people who have mental disorders

3. It helps with cancer/ even allows them to eat better.

4.Pot stores should be highly taxed, so therefore America will be out of debt real fast.

4.unlike any other drug, it's herbal, no-toxic, and just a plant purely God created it for a reason. You can't overdose on it.

It' should come with a buyer be ware: like anything including drinking, to not over do it, use it as occasionly, and smartly.

Marijauna is better than drinking booze, so whycan't we get that legalized?  I believe spice is fake, and it is toxic

Lull Khan
Said this on 6-29-2013 At 07:23 pm

Please do not buy cheap fake herbal blend because you gonna end up in hospital. I buy geneone and top notch sh*t from strongestherbalincense.com every week.

Said this on 10-3-2013 At 07:52 pm

The best herbal incense on the market in 2013 is definately Diablo Herbal Incense. They have been in the game for over 4 years. Check it out <a href="http://diabloincense.com">Buy Herbal Incense</a>

Said this on 10-3-2013 At 07:54 pm

I see you need a special herbal incense product for everyone. Buy Herbal Incense

Said this on 3-10-2014 At 12:14 pm

This stuff is no joke. Especially, the new chemicals they are using. My boyfriend smokes synthetic marijuana and he is getting worse and worse. Whenever he gets high, he is just comatose and when he isn’t high, he is mad. It’s crazy

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